[00:00:08] And with that, I want to welcome everybody's way very packed Game Night Episode Crashing Game Night.
[00:00:18] My name is Matt Dior, you're host as always.
[00:00:22] We are joined by three past guests who have been, you know, one of them has been begging me to talk about this.
[00:00:30] He finally finished it.
[00:00:31] Fresh off of a trip for a honeymoon, VK Marion.
[00:00:37] What's up, bud?
[00:00:39] Yeah, what's up everybody. Thanks for having me.
[00:00:41] Thanks for having me to talk about this.
[00:00:43] Oh yeah, some games.
[00:00:44] That kind of thing.
[00:00:46] Fresh off of a trip to Fenway, rock in the Boston gear,
[00:00:53] the unofficial official fifth member of the podcast, Soldier First Class.
[00:00:59] Soldier.
[00:01:00] They basically just got eliminated just now too, so I'm really, I'm really right.
[00:01:06] I'm really right coming into this episode.
[00:01:09] Well, misery loves company because, you know, the Rockies were done day one.
[00:01:16] That's fair.
[00:01:17] They were done preseason when you're talking about, yeah, we were living in months ago.
[00:01:22] And then also fresh from being, you know, having a baby.
[00:01:27] Yeah. Oh, geez.
[00:01:29] Congratulations here in order for the host of the final fantasy we could podcast and
[00:01:34] end awake right here for the, for the, for the, the Colorado Rockies Drew
[00:01:39] Creason.
[00:01:40] Yorkies.
[00:01:41] Yeah, yeah.
[00:01:42] Yeah. Hey, thanks for having me. I am awake.
[00:01:46] Point of order. My wife had the baby.
[00:01:51] Well, yeah, that said.
[00:01:54] I, I only wish that the Rockies keep doing as well in the real life as there.
[00:01:59] Am I season?
[00:02:01] Aren't video.
[00:02:01] It's great.
[00:02:03] I am.
[00:02:03] I am 83 and 32 and 11 and a half games up on the.
[00:02:08] Yeah. I mean, what a, what a fantasy that is.
[00:02:11] That is.
[00:02:12] It's, it, is it bad that you are, you have like a 51 win difference
[00:02:18] and you're still only 11 games up on the top.
[00:02:23] That's what I'm talking about.
[00:02:25] Okay, I'm going to say that.
[00:02:25] The last time the Rockies saw success like this was when we got swept by Boston in the world
[00:02:31] series.
[00:02:33] I remember.
[00:02:35] As do I.
[00:02:36] So I was, I was a sophomore in high school.
[00:02:40] I was still rock and blockbuster at that point.
[00:02:42] Anyways, ladies and gentlemen, we have our normal crew going on the
[00:02:51] right.
[00:02:52] What is up?
[00:02:53] All my nerds out there.
[00:02:54] Thank you all for joining.
[00:02:57] Soldier VK drew welcome back boys.
[00:03:00] It feels like it feels like families back.
[00:03:02] It feels like we got a, we, we just need a barbecue going baby.
[00:03:06] Thank you for joining and.
[00:03:09] I can't wait for the feeling this discussion tonight is going to be like a bar.
[00:03:14] We have to make a face one.
[00:03:17] I'm just going to be a, I'm just glad I'm not baseball fan right now.
[00:03:20] And you guys can just do what do your thing.
[00:03:23] Yeah, I don't know.
[00:03:24] This is there's a reason Jason went and changed his shirt.
[00:03:27] The main kid is services needed to get in the uniform tonight.
[00:03:30] So the man with the couch, the man, the myth, the legend, the lion's main Jason
[00:03:37] Boletio.
[00:03:38] How's it going guys?
[00:03:39] How's it going?
[00:03:40] We got the whole crew tonight.
[00:03:42] I love it.
[00:03:43] I love it.
[00:03:44] Oh my god.
[00:03:45] Yeah, I had a change man.
[00:03:46] Because you know, I got to have my mug on my chair.
[00:03:50] Have a little shine that's a nice and sure.
[00:03:51] Having a little wine, you know, like is very fitting.
[00:03:54] We're going to get that shirt.
[00:03:56] You need to close baby.
[00:03:57] Like you do love of course.
[00:03:59] We're all.
[00:04:00] Oh, yeah.
[00:04:01] You did a whole collection.
[00:04:03] But they had to have a few collections.
[00:04:05] This one was one of the ones that they had on like previous one.
[00:04:09] So a lot of the shirts were on sale too.
[00:04:11] And I was like, Oh, man.
[00:04:14] It's not like, it's not like Square Enix does many shirts anymore for their franchise.
[00:04:18] Just anyway.
[00:04:18] So like, but yes, I had to get this shirt.
[00:04:21] I had to bring it on.
[00:04:22] I had to be like, you know what?
[00:04:24] Today all the guys are here and I'm going to talk some good old,
[00:04:27] Final Fantasy baby.
[00:04:29] Oh, yeah, we are finally brought my couch.
[00:04:32] Oh, see you look at that.
[00:04:33] Oh, dude.
[00:04:34] He's showing me the red.
[00:04:35] He's already.
[00:04:37] Man, he didn't go to IKEA.
[00:04:38] He's trying to show you up with a real couch.
[00:04:40] Yeah.
[00:04:40] I know.
[00:04:40] It's a real couch man.
[00:04:41] That's why he's the fifth member.
[00:04:42] Yeah, you know, I'm a official official official.
[00:04:46] I mean, he pretty much is at this point, you know,
[00:04:50] I want to be kids that I have a petition for you.
[00:04:53] Oh, we should.
[00:04:54] All right.
[00:04:55] We am.
[00:04:55] And this is being thrown.
[00:04:57] What's up?
[00:04:58] Because is this?
[00:04:59] No, I think it's not.
[00:05:00] You told this is my whole related information.
[00:05:03] I'll call it.
[00:05:04] I'll call it.
[00:05:04] I'll call it.
[00:05:08] Wow.
[00:05:13] Yeah.
[00:05:15] 100% bias.
[00:05:16] So I'll do it better.
[00:05:17] I'll do it better.
[00:05:22] I'm like, I mean, I'm down to somewhere.
[00:05:27] I'm down to somewhere.
[00:05:28] I'm down to somewhere.
[00:05:28] I'm down to somewhere.
[00:05:30] Wait, hold on.
[00:05:31] Did you just take a shot of me?
[00:05:33] I'm going to.
[00:05:34] I'm going to.
[00:05:34] You know, you're.
[00:05:35] You're.
[00:05:35] You're a deep space, nine deep space contact these face all those deep spaces.
[00:05:40] I mean, how you're already in space.
[00:05:43] It's already.
[00:05:44] Can you go?
[00:05:47] Even.
[00:05:48] Even.
[00:05:49] I just now you're just.
[00:05:51] And now you're just.
[00:05:51] I don't know.
[00:05:53] Could it be even be ever expanding is that even possible.
[00:05:56] You guys.
[00:05:57] This guy.
[00:05:58] I was going to.
[00:05:59] I was.
[00:06:00] I was.
[00:06:00] I was.
[00:06:00] It's just.
[00:06:01] A nerd.
[00:06:03] But.
[00:06:04] We're about to talk about do you going to ruin our terms of service by showing us your sex toys or
[00:06:08] screen.
[00:06:09] You.
[00:06:10] You.
[00:06:11] You know what, that actually was a pretty dope light.
[00:06:13] You should keep that in the background.
[00:06:14] Actually, yeah, that's.
[00:06:16] I got to figure out a place.
[00:06:18] I've got everything kind of situated.
[00:06:20] And whatnot at my house so where I've got more my collectibles out.
[00:06:24] So.
[00:06:24] You write, though, it is going to be a little.
[00:06:26] Look out right now.
[00:06:27] It is.
[00:06:29] Yeah.
[00:06:29] But don't be, don't be knock.
[00:06:30] I've been watching Star Wars since a little kid, man.
[00:06:33] Yeah, not.
[00:06:34] Same.
[00:06:35] Before we were.
[00:06:35] Had all the original, had all the original
[00:06:37] actual figures minus one?
[00:06:39] Different.
[00:06:40] I watched, like, though.
[00:06:41] Different says I wasn't born when those moves came out.
[00:06:44] Yeah.
[00:06:45] Oh, come.
[00:06:47] For sure.
[00:06:48] I saw them in the movie for the rereleases.
[00:06:50] I remember the rereleases.
[00:06:51] That's what I was in for.
[00:06:53] But I, yeah, I was.
[00:06:55] I was in briefs or wars except the other.
[00:06:57] I don't, I don't accept that.
[00:06:59] I don't accept that.
[00:06:59] You know what?
[00:07:00] I don't accept that.
[00:07:02] I love that.
[00:07:03] Really?
[00:07:04] There were some points.
[00:07:06] There were some good stuff and some bad stuff.
[00:07:08] Now Drew, I can before we jump in a final fan.
[00:07:10] So you're really good.
[00:07:10] I can't sit in the end of your team.
[00:07:13] On one.
[00:07:14] I can understand why they canceled it, though.
[00:07:17] Absolutely.
[00:07:18] I can't.
[00:07:19] But it doesn't matter.
[00:07:20] I mean, I mean, we could do this.
[00:07:22] I quite a few want.
[00:07:23] I just think it's a really dumb thing to do.
[00:07:25] I think it sends all the wrong messages.
[00:07:28] But I mean, it's, I think it's sad for a lot of different reasons beyond even just
[00:07:34] like the real life ones of like we finally get a story that is completely detached from
[00:07:41] the Skywalker saga that is completely in a different era featuring completely original
[00:07:46] characters.
[00:07:47] And I also thought I had the best lightsaber combat in the history of the franchise.
[00:07:53] Oh, I'll give you the light saber combat on that one.
[00:07:55] I also just think it laid so many interesting foundations for future possibilities to fill
[00:08:02] in the lore on either side of it.
[00:08:04] I'm really disappointed that it's not going to continue.
[00:08:07] But I know a lot of people didn't like it for a lot of reasons that I, you know, are fair.
[00:08:12] I just disagree with them.
[00:08:14] But story drug for me.
[00:08:15] That was my big thing.
[00:08:16] It just, it drug.
[00:08:17] I'm not saying that it wasn't a good story.
[00:08:19] And I love who they got for the lead role.
[00:08:24] I mean, I loved him in squid games.
[00:08:28] And you know, the boy went and learned English used quite on get gin as inspiration for
[00:08:34] the character.
[00:08:36] I think there was just, there was some continuity problems with the greater universe,
[00:08:43] especially since Kiyatiman was included in in acolyte.
[00:08:49] And he doesn't exist until a little bit later.
[00:08:52] Oh, Kiyatiman.
[00:08:53] Yeah.
[00:08:53] Arcandy moody.
[00:08:55] So I mean, there were some things that they just kind of just throughout the window.
[00:09:00] But I mean, none of them.
[00:09:01] I was just canon yet.
[00:09:02] But those all in books that weren't canon, they're deciding the canon now.
[00:09:07] So yeah, if you're going to do something like that, just give me a little nice silver
[00:09:10] public.
[00:09:12] Just go back to the good stuff, you know?
[00:09:16] But that being said, we're actually finally.
[00:09:21] Finally because it took Jerry how long to finish the freaking game.
[00:09:25] It didn't take me as long as the first one.
[00:09:28] So we really let's wrap this up.
[00:09:30] So technically, we're finally going to talk about Final Fantasy Rebirth.
[00:09:36] And you know, okay.
[00:09:39] And you can finish rebirth?
[00:09:40] Yes, he did.
[00:09:41] No, no, no, no.
[00:09:42] I finished.
[00:09:43] Who finished it for him?
[00:09:45] First of all, we finished it because it's not like you played my game.
[00:09:51] Okay, you literally helped me with your stuff like me.
[00:09:55] Percent, a percent, the final boss.
[00:09:59] That was it.
[00:10:00] You helped me with the final boss.
[00:10:02] I was having trouble.
[00:10:03] Which I, that that's it is finishing.
[00:10:05] So I do not have any problem admitting.
[00:10:09] I had to let me.
[00:10:10] I needed a friend so.
[00:10:12] Okay, you really had trouble on the final boss.
[00:10:15] Final phase.
[00:10:17] On the final phase.
[00:10:18] I'm like, yeah, I am like normal load, right?
[00:10:21] Not hard going.
[00:10:23] No, yeah.
[00:10:25] Interesting.
[00:10:25] Okay, so soldier, I want to ask you this.
[00:10:28] Because I'm pretty sure I know where your opinion's going to lie on this.
[00:10:31] This, this is going to be good.
[00:10:33] Do you want to be the one to throw the first salvo, or do you want to wait and
[00:10:36] ruin everybody's day?
[00:10:41] I want to see where the conversation goes before I start swing in for the
[00:10:47] fences.
[00:10:48] All right, okay.
[00:10:50] I have an interesting take on this whole thing that I feel like is more
[00:10:57] pragmatic than I think everyone here is great.
[00:11:00] Drew, you stand as the as the as the propiretor of the final fantasy
[00:11:06] weekly podcast, it's kind of up your your alley.
[00:11:09] I will let you start off with your opinion on rebirth.
[00:11:16] Like my entire opinion.
[00:11:19] Yeah, like much time you have.
[00:11:21] We should probably break this down into chunks, like maybe I was going to say
[00:11:25] everyone like cozy up grab a blanket.
[00:11:28] Like how many parts is this show?
[00:11:29] This is like a really popular show, right?
[00:11:32] As many parts as the remake series.
[00:11:33] I believe what I tweeted when the credits were rolling was,
[00:11:41] I don't believe that I have ever in my life played a better video game.
[00:11:47] So I guess we could start there.
[00:11:50] Okay.
[00:11:51] Yeah, yes.
[00:11:53] I understand that that is a bold claim.
[00:11:55] I also understand that it's a highly subjective thing, but I tend to look at this
[00:12:02] whole project from a pretty meta like 35,000 foot view as somebody who's been
[00:12:09] a final fantasy fan since before the release of Final Fantasy 7, the original.
[00:12:15] And it's not my personal favorite or my holy grail though.
[00:12:19] It is one of my favorite games in the franchise.
[00:12:23] But I've seen the way that the video game industry has evolved,
[00:12:29] particularly in response to the success of Final Fantasy 7.
[00:12:34] And the way the Final Fantasy franchise, particularly after the release of the 10th game
[00:12:40] has struggled in the eyes of many to evolve along with the industry.
[00:12:46] Whenever it seemed like the industry was going more linear or open world,
[00:12:51] Final Fantasy was going in the other direction or not doing it quite right.
[00:12:55] They were a little bit behind.
[00:12:55] Okay, hold on.
[00:12:56] We'll all do respect through get off the hate on 13.
[00:13:00] No, no, I do not hate any final.
[00:13:03] That's just not me.
[00:13:05] You and I've gone around.
[00:13:06] I do.
[00:13:07] I'm a hater.
[00:13:08] I was born in a theater.
[00:13:09] Looking at the current scores.
[00:13:11] I mean, you are a boss in France.
[00:13:13] You will see that games like 13 and 15 both games that I love weren't received
[00:13:20] with the same kind of praise that games like Final Fantasy 7.
[00:13:24] Eight is a different.
[00:13:26] We can nine and ten.
[00:13:28] Well, eight was just complicated and it's just a longer story.
[00:13:32] And we're trying to do that.
[00:13:33] I'm trying to be as quick as I can.
[00:13:36] Yeah, I haven't even really understood.
[00:13:38] It's pretty perspective.
[00:13:39] Eight is a Korean drama in a game.
[00:13:41] I love all of these games.
[00:13:43] But one of the things that's really interesting is after the guy who created Final Fantasy
[00:13:47] left the company, I do think there was a bit of an identity crisis.
[00:13:52] And a lot of things were happening in the video game industry that were really fun and
[00:13:56] interesting that Final Fantasy wasn't always keeping along with.
[00:14:01] And how do you feel about any of that?
[00:14:03] What I find so remarkable about rebirth in particular is that I think it is a recognition
[00:14:09] of the entire line from Final Fantasy 7 to it.
[00:14:14] These games like Ghost of Sushima, some of them are what?
[00:14:19] Because we all know that Final Fantasy 7 wasn't open world, but it lied to us and made
[00:14:23] us believe that it was.
[00:14:25] It felt like it was.
[00:14:27] And then games were actually able to deliver on the promise of what Final Fantasy
[00:14:32] 7 felt like.
[00:14:34] And we end up getting things like the last of us in God of war and red dead redemption.
[00:14:39] And Final Fantasy wasn't really able to keep up with that stuff.
[00:14:43] And then with rebirth, there's this kind of recognition of all those games.
[00:14:48] Now rebirth is directly influenced by all of those games.
[00:14:53] And you can see it across the board.
[00:14:54] It's got the Ubisoft towers.
[00:14:57] It's got the ghosts of Sushima birds.
[00:14:59] It's got all of this other stuff.
[00:15:02] But the other thing it's got is the unique lore world and story of Final Fantasy 7, which
[00:15:10] is Waco Bananas, awesome, cool, incredible, unmistakable as anything in the history of
[00:15:17] video gaming.
[00:15:19] And so they can take all those conventions and deliver it to you but with Tifa.
[00:15:25] And so I think it's just an act of genius the way they've recognized everything that's
[00:15:30] happened, embraced, reimagining the entire concept of what remake or remaster means.
[00:15:38] And go the polar opposite of say the direction of something like the live action lying
[00:15:42] king, which is just beat for beat.
[00:15:45] And they're like, no, we're actually going to completely reinterpret what the word remake even
[00:15:52] means and retell this story from the beginning, from the ground up and play with the people
[00:16:01] who experienced it originally.
[00:16:04] I think it's a stroke of genius from top to bottom.
[00:16:08] And I just, yeah, they obviously we can dive into any other specifics or whatever but like,
[00:16:13] I was absolutely blown away by what they were able to accomplish.
[00:16:19] DK?
[00:16:22] Well, said, well said, yeah, I had so much fun with it.
[00:16:26] It was like everything like I wanted to see and then some because like I feel like they nail all the
[00:16:33] acting, the voice acting, the way they write them like everything that characters tells about
[00:16:37] them's great.
[00:16:40] Like the only part of the game that I did think was T, as was the tower is like the open world
[00:16:45] exploration part with like the repetitiveness of like finding towers and stuff but like
[00:16:50] aside from that, like I think everything about this game is just so much fun and like the ending,
[00:16:54] like I know the ending we can get into this later but like the ending of this was quote and quote
[00:16:58] controversial. The ending of part one was controversial too.
[00:17:02] Trying to talk, you guys off the ledge from part one when you're going to speak and out about it.
[00:17:06] And like I literally think that based on these two games, I don't think anybody has anything to worry
[00:17:13] about with these endings. Like I would really think the point is crazy endings in between the
[00:17:20] installments is literally just a little bit like for the next games because like as we've seen
[00:17:25] with at the end of part one, one of the ones part two, part two was like pretty much like the same
[00:17:29] story as there's no game, right? Except for the little thing at the end. Right? So like who knows
[00:17:32] maybe part of it will go off in a crazy different direction but like until it actually happens like
[00:17:36] just I think it's literally just like build hike until like have us like being like oh what
[00:17:41] it's gonna happen when you're like here that you know because if they didn't do that like
[00:17:45] there would be no excitement or height between these games. You know it would just be like oh we're
[00:17:50] just going on the same story we always went on. So like I think it is really cool if they did
[00:17:54] throw in these little wrenches where like like the whole Zach thing, right?
[00:17:58] People like at the end of part one were like freaking out this is gonna completely change
[00:18:02] part two and it's like it didn't really like he was barely in this game. Like he was sitting
[00:18:05] little bits here and there just like a little wrinkle too like what's going you're gonna happen
[00:18:11] into part three and like who knows? You might you know be something completely different who knows but
[00:18:15] like I do think it was genius like like how do you said that they were able to thread these like
[00:18:21] these little twists to make it so that those of us who did play the original like it's still
[00:18:25] nostalgic but at the same time like new novel and like excited. RAFE for the bombshelltor
[00:18:35] solar. So I'm gonna agree a lot with what these two have said and I know that's going to
[00:18:42] come as a shock to some of you but where I differ is that I tend to believe that
[00:18:52] you could create hype without going to the links that they went to because sometimes I feel
[00:18:59] that the game so I'll start with gameplay. To Drew's point like you know sometimes the franchise
[00:19:05] is not kept up with other other games in like its contemporaries right but what it has done
[00:19:11] is now I believe established what Final Fantasy's combat should be from now on. They need to take
[00:19:18] this basis of what they have and turn this into a trendceter. This is what action and RPG elements
[00:19:25] together should be from now on. I'm not saying every game needs to be an ATB slash action game
[00:19:32] but I think the basis of what it has now is something that Final Fantasy should look at as its
[00:19:37] future identity if it wants to go the route of action combat from now on because that seems to be
[00:19:42] the general direction they want to go in that regard. Also agree. As it pertains to the story
[00:19:52] the thing that I tend to disagree with on the endings and how to drum up hype and everything for
[00:19:58] the future parts. Yes, it does that but I think it also at the same time equally turns off certain
[00:20:04] people to the future because they're like this isn't the Final Fantasy 7 I remember and in some ways
[00:20:10] that's good in other ways that that's kind of bad and I think sales are really going to determine
[00:20:16] how people feel about this game. Yes, the hardcore fans are going to love it. The ones that
[00:20:22] may have gotten into Final Fantasy with this game may love it that don't have that history
[00:20:26] but you are going to see I would say kind of like the 13 series. It's a little bit different but I think
[00:20:32] historically squaring X's sequels have not sold well whether that be because of console availability
[00:20:39] or hype has dropped off because it wasn't what people thought or the first rendition wasn't
[00:20:45] the greatest so then nobody wants to play like nobody wants to play lightning returns if they didn't
[00:20:50] like the first game they're not going to go and buy the sequels right. So I think for me except
[00:20:55] I love the first game well I didn't like where to went like I right in like the gameplay so I
[00:21:02] never picked up the third one like exactly and that's what I mean should have been left alone just
[00:21:06] what I mean. Because with remake everybody was like okay you know the whole the whole Zack thing
[00:21:12] you could get away with and be like okay we do this now and then we set it up for later and then
[00:21:18] we make a payoff right well people will forgive Zack just randomly coming in at the end and maybe
[00:21:25] there's this big intrigue and mystery but I think when it comes to the ending of rebirth
[00:21:30] a lot of people drew a line in the sand that you don't mess with earth's scene right like I
[00:21:34] personally did I know a lot of people did and I'm not saying that that's like the way to go I mean
[00:21:40] everybody's entitled their opinion that was just mine personally and I thought that when it came
[00:21:46] to that scene they sacrificed her moment to boost clouds moment later and if you're trying to
[00:21:53] drum a pipe for part three that works in a way but it also is that tipping point where the
[00:21:59] people that might have been interested in part three are now completely off because of that scene and
[00:22:05] it's kind of it was a big gamble and I think we're gonna see how that plays out in part three
[00:22:11] personally speaking I'm kind of altered I I 100% believe they faltered but I do see potential in it
[00:22:20] to have a good payoff I don't think it's I'm not gonna sit here like I did with remaking
[00:22:24] police say the game is garbage it'll never do this it'll never drum a pipe it'll never you know
[00:22:30] I'm not gonna do that because I do think after talking with people like baby seal on his podcast
[00:22:36] and stuff like that I do see the merit of it and I do see what it could drum up for the future
[00:22:41] the payoff just needs to be worth it right like it has to be I think even people that are on
[00:22:48] board with the direction want the payoff to be 100% or even 90% pulled off right like there
[00:22:57] needs to be some kind of payoff that they can sit back and say okay this journey was worth it
[00:23:03] and some will say the journey was worth it regardless because they're gonna get to the end and be like
[00:23:07] I had a lot of fun this game was fun and I agree the game was a blast I got the platinum
[00:23:13] and put 300 hours in it to needless to say I love the game right there were things that didn't
[00:23:19] like specifically the ending from Gaga and yeah but the thing about it is that everybody thought
[00:23:28] when I when I didn't like knew when I didn't like the expansion of the things that that I
[00:23:33] completely didn't like anything new and that was 100% not right my problem with the new stuff was when
[00:23:39] okay Junon was like I was literally on Twitter like oh my god this is the best
[00:23:46] should I've ever played my life Junon was amazing this is exactly what I pictured with Junon like
[00:23:52] the political intrigue the drama the attempt to assassination of rufus like you
[00:23:59] be coming in and screwing things up because that's what she does like that's her personality
[00:24:03] she doesn't think before she does things and that I felt perfectly fit her character
[00:24:09] but then when they started to do things new like in chapter nine where now we're reintroducing
[00:24:15] the whispers which we thought were gone now there's multiple kinds of whispers now there's all this
[00:24:20] now they're like the directions they started pulling from was so there were so many directions
[00:24:26] they pulled from that I think it started to lose me in that regard but overall I would say my
[00:24:32] experience was phenomenal obviously I put 300 hours into it I obviously liked the game
[00:24:37] but in the in the story department was where it started to falter for me
[00:24:43] but up until chapter nine like I was fully invested I was like oh my god they did it like
[00:24:49] my worries about what happened at the end of remake were gone until chapter the end of the
[00:24:55] end of chapter nine even during chapter nine I was like this is amazing what was chapter nine
[00:25:02] uh gungaga where they uh yeah uh just got shit like everything up to that point like
[00:25:10] cisna I didn't even like crisis core I will go on record and saying I hated that fucking game
[00:25:17] but I
[00:25:19] loved all the cisna stuff I loved all of the like going and talking to Zax parents not being
[00:25:27] optional I liked that that was forced because if you're gonna bring in this character
[00:25:31] make me learn about him don't don't put it in the side you know side pocket and say well you might
[00:25:38] be able to learn about him but like I said up until chapter nine and even a little bit after chapter nine
[00:25:44] the fallout of all that I was really hyped I was like okay chapter nine kind of dropped off
[00:25:49] for me but we'll see where it goes chapter 10 was good chapter 11 dragged a little bit but I
[00:25:53] didn't it wasn't so agree just that like everybody on Twitter was overreacting too like yeah
[00:25:59] there were parts of it I didn't like but the overall the shin remanor, Nebelheim stuff like that
[00:26:07] a little tadbit disappointing but not 100% like didn't make me fall off
[00:26:12] chapter 12 popped around I really liked the tempo of the ancients it dragged a little bit in chapter 13
[00:26:19] I loved all the trials like seeing the characters face their biggest fears was or like their
[00:26:25] biggest failure that was so hell yeah that was by far one of my favorite moments in the entire game
[00:26:32] and then chapter 14 hit and I was like leading up to the moment I was like oh my god they are
[00:26:40] to pull this week and I'm getting full you know this is full on spoiler cast we can talk about it
[00:26:45] like you can I so let me let me see if I can change your opinion on this okay because
[00:26:51] oh yeah no because because I thought because I was on the different podcast section one of my
[00:26:56] friends about this and like going into this game people were thinking like air to see the gun
[00:27:02] direction is gonna live like that was the whole big question do you think she's gonna be
[00:27:07] that was that was the whole thing that people were saying one one way or the other right like
[00:27:12] and I think that was the two expectations and what they did was they did the third thing which
[00:27:19] was you actually don't know what happened and like I think we do have for two reasons one to give you
[00:27:25] the feeling that and the original game where you're like what the fuck just happened I like this
[00:27:29] character died a lot but seems sort of got punch and like that seemed feeling of like what did I just
[00:27:34] watch like a serious like what happened but all of a sudden you started to cook
[00:27:44] it's not a cook you're starting to cook and then when you're playing with it on a half
[00:27:52] march and who the hammering for game and market error in the third game
[00:27:57] who let VK and grilled duty VK I apologize that you you want the robot
[00:28:05] complete by you you're cooking and then yeah so what I say was like the reason they're
[00:28:14] gonna walk I think besides I'm just like giving that emotional god punch it's to give you that
[00:28:18] good and come when you play to originally of like there it is
[00:28:34] yeah so
[00:28:35] he's zoom zoom not only couldn't handle the heat they got out of the kitchen
[00:28:45] this is what happens when he's using his using a computer that was built by Shinro okay
[00:28:50] I can kind of piece together what you were saying and so here's where I had the problem with it
[00:28:58] I didn't care like I actually appreciated the fact that they did the whole cloud may or may not have
[00:29:04] blocked this word thing like I did appreciate that because I was like okay I'm sitting here
[00:29:10] I'm streaming this I'm like are they gonna do it I'm the whole time the slow walk up the slow
[00:29:16] walk up the stairs I'm like are they gonna do it or are they gonna not do it and I'm sitting there
[00:29:21] and I'm in chat and I'm like my eyes are the size of beach balls like I'm on the edge of my
[00:29:27] seat right and it gets to that moment and he blocks or doesn't block the sword and I'm like
[00:29:36] my heart had like stop it is skipped a beat right then because I was like I still don't know what
[00:29:42] happened but then I see him do it but then I see him not do it okay so then when it
[00:29:49] turned out that he was holding her you know she was covered in blood and then like she wasn't
[00:29:54] and then she was again and then like Tifa walked up and then her mind started to break in that moment
[00:30:00] I was like this is really cool they are in the moment not accepting her death
[00:30:07] and then the end of the boss fight came and she stepped through the portal
[00:30:13] and all bets were off on you know you didn't know whether she was a live or dead at that point
[00:30:18] like is this another air that came back is it her that like her soul has come back from the
[00:30:24] life stream to help cloud is this in clouds mine isn't not in clouds mine like where where is the
[00:30:37] that even months after I've beaten this game I'm still left with the question of why was it
[00:30:44] necessary to bring her back in that moment even if it was in his mind the player themselves is
[00:30:52] getting the experience of her being there and alive in that moment so it kind of took the impact
[00:30:57] that had just happened and undercut it a little bit emotionally for me because if I can see I know
[00:31:04] not a lot of people or maybe a lot of people do and I'm just not thinking right but to me if I
[00:31:10] see a character up walking around interacting saying things they would say if they were alive
[00:31:16] doing the things that they would do if they were alive to me it feels like they're still there
[00:31:23] and it takes the emotional weight of their death out of it like after air thighs in the original
[00:31:28] she's gone there is nothing and even if you like explore the church or whatever you go
[00:31:34] back and there's like that little ghost of her that maybe a glitch or maybe nobody's really
[00:31:40] solved that puzzle yet but I still felt that it undercut the moment and that's I wanted to
[00:31:50] feel in the moment like I know that people are saying like it might pop up in part three
[00:31:54] like clouds gonna have the monologue they recorded the lines I get all that to me though
[00:31:59] that's three four or five years from now I want to feel right now and I have a hard time believing
[00:32:06] that at the beginning of part three they're gonna be able to drag me back in when I've already
[00:32:12] cashed out emotionally if that makes sense and I don't know if a lot of people feel that way
[00:32:16] that's how the moment felt to me you were definitely robbed of a loss like yeah it felt like
[00:32:22] I think the original or like the hardcore fans that really loved it felt I mean I felt robbed on
[00:32:28] that too that's why I was constantly questioning as well and like is this perial is this
[00:32:36] you know I was up to question good yeah and some in some regard that's good because
[00:32:41] that's the thing like you they are they are driving intrigue and they are driving it to where
[00:32:51] that's where I'm at and everybody and everybody is just basically doing that thing where you
[00:32:56] like you have that friend that you you know you should probably talk to because they're going through it
[00:33:02] but at the same time you're really uncomfortable around them and you also don't know what they're
[00:33:06] gonna do if you do bring it up and so everybody's like crying around cloud he's just like not
[00:33:12] given up this is right now this is why I do I agree with you on a lot of the aspects of what you
[00:33:18] said it was just I like that aspect that he's he is a bit troubled right and I think
[00:33:25] the story through throughout that point uh like it's been strong but the points that you're
[00:33:33] bringing up I feel like it's kind of been the studio influence in regards to I think this this is
[00:33:41] the other side of this double edge sort of the remake and for them kind of promoting
[00:33:48] or redoing the story in order to get people like new people to bring being brought in which
[00:33:55] is why I think they're creating those those parts of the story that we may not agree with but we
[00:34:01] do understand but we really don't agree with right well and I think the thing too is like I love
[00:34:08] that this game is exploring mental health as well because I feel like it's not it's not something
[00:34:12] that's explored in video games to this degree where I felt for cloud at the same time of
[00:34:20] understanding I feel for the party too because they're watching there basically their leader
[00:34:26] is there leader the god yeah this guy they have spent you know let's say I mean they've spent
[00:34:32] less time than we have technically but we've spent what 200 300 or 100 hours with these this
[00:34:39] character and now he's losing his shit and his friends don't know how to help him and so like I
[00:34:46] love that they're exploring the mental health aspect and they're showing you that cloud is losing
[00:34:49] his shit and cloud is how are we gonna bring so you make cloud back how is he gonna become the hero
[00:34:56] he's meant to become and they're doing a little bit earlier than they did in the original
[00:35:02] but I don't mind that so much as long as they wouldn't have undercut air th moment to do so
[00:35:07] big differences yeah yeah and I know that like they had to make some concessions like there
[00:35:15] was gonna be concessions I was not gonna get the perfect remake you know Matt wasn't gonna
[00:35:20] get the perfect remake nobody in this chat was gonna get the perfect ideal whatever they had in
[00:35:26] mind well drew but nobody I mean nobody nobody saying was gonna get just kidding no nobody was
[00:35:36] gonna get their ideal perfect remake so I went into this knowing that you know there was going to
[00:35:42] be concessions I was gonna have to make other fans were gonna have to make and stuff like that it was
[00:35:47] just there were certain things where I drew the line personally and then they did those things
[00:35:52] and that's why I fell off but then even after that ending I went back and finished hard mode
[00:35:58] I finished all the the simulator challenges I finished all the mini games on hard mode like
[00:36:04] obviously it wasn't enough to completely destroy how I felt about the 98% of the game
[00:36:11] that I loved I cannot believe I'm gonna be the soldier of this conversation
[00:36:17] do what oh so okay so we know how you were with the ending of remake
[00:36:23] yeah famously so so here's my issues with the game one is the second they went
[00:36:32] multiverse with it yes that is where it started going downhill so in terms of I enjoy I thoroughly
[00:36:39] enjoy the game but the second they went multiverse to me it feels like basically we're in
[00:36:47] fractures of clouds mind essentially which could be great what did it which could be
[00:36:53] which could be great it's like the second they started doing this whole movie for saying and now
[00:36:58] there are timelines I do too well so here's a thing though they're gonna they've already come
[00:37:02] said they're by the time three is done we're gonna be back on advent children
[00:37:09] so which I will say point what I was saying that they're only doing this between games
[00:37:14] so that you build like so that we're doing this right now so here's the thing it but
[00:37:19] air is death let's just be honest air is death was a pivotal moment in seven
[00:37:25] it's the same old game yes that in game yeah but that is exactly that that's game like you
[00:37:31] said that's game og history that that's why it doesn't sit well with a lot of it it's it's
[00:37:38] it's personal the the two things that bothered me the most about it and I think a lot of people
[00:37:43] are gonna agree but maybe not everybody the two things that really bothered me the most
[00:37:48] and I know they had to do it because they had the concession of we have to establish clouds and saying
[00:37:53] one no lowering into the water I felt that was a very iconic segment not only just air
[00:37:59] that's that obviously it was obviously sufferer coming down as iconic but it's the lowering of
[00:38:05] her into the water of finally saying yes she's gone and then the monologue but again I understood
[00:38:12] that there was concessions to make because they couldn't do the monot they could partially do
[00:38:16] the monologue but then it would be really weird if cloud did it and everybody heard it
[00:38:21] and then all of a sudden he was just like what happened guys were we good you know
[00:38:25] and then the lowering of the water thing is like it probably happened and everybody saw him do it
[00:38:32] but if we saw him do it and then we saw him be like okay let's beatbap out of here let's go
[00:38:37] you know then it would be weird again so I know that like that's why they did it the way they did it
[00:38:42] but those were the two really big things that disappointed me about it actually like that
[00:38:49] you guys keep saying like cloud's crazy at the end of it but like I feel like that's very
[00:38:53] ambiguous though what they did because because like that's an interpretation that he's gone nuts
[00:39:00] but the other interpretation is that he's actually you're seeing two you're conversely seeing
[00:39:06] two different timelines out and his minds literally like going in between two different timelines
[00:39:10] because that was that's what I thought that's why I kept going with timelines like yeah
[00:39:15] that was how I was reading all that was that like not that he it like was blocking it out of
[00:39:21] himself and he was literally living in two different timelines and seeing two different things happen
[00:39:25] so literally feels like Zelda like Final Fantasy went Zelda like because there's three different
[00:39:30] timelines in Zelda it is there's three different timelines in Zelda depending on what point
[00:39:34] time you go off of Aquarina of Time okay did did Ganorfe beat link did
[00:39:43] Ganorfe loose the link this and they've never happened oh thanks there's my thing is like
[00:39:49] you're bringing back and as much as I love Caleb and everything like that but bringing Zack
[00:39:54] back in the way they brought him into the game and made him more of a key piece this time around
[00:40:00] it's like one of the whole key pieces cloud goes on his journey is because of what happened with
[00:40:08] back in the original and it kind of took that away I was actually fine with the bread crumbs
[00:40:16] that they laid like so if you wanted to keep going and then do part three where you do the big
[00:40:21] team up I'd be okay with that but I even made the joke I believe on this podcast that they were
[00:40:26] gonna come together with a beam of light story life stream and beat set for off with the power
[00:40:32] friendship little did I know that you did that's pretty cool little did I know how true
[00:40:40] that was gonna be in the second part I completely got the timing of that off but I would have
[00:40:46] been okay if they would have done the bread crumbs was Zack the way they did it had they waited
[00:40:50] until part three to do the big payoff because it seemed like they rushed that payoff to get Zack a bigger
[00:40:57] and then ultimately at the end of part two his role really wasn't that big it didn't matter I
[00:41:04] should say like what he contributed besides like the help of beating Sephiroth the contribution
[00:41:10] didn't really matter in the end it did but it didn't I guess he was like the surprise like cool
[00:41:16] cameo yeah it was the it was this fan service thing like yeah bringing this guy back that
[00:41:21] everybody loved from crisis core to get the fans really hyped or in my case really crenge but anyway
[00:41:30] but that's those those more of those examples I feel like are the grander scheme of like the
[00:41:36] studio moves of trying to build the hype to continue the franchise and to I think they have more
[00:41:44] I think that future more like further plans on building on like maybe tv show a movie or you know
[00:41:52] maybe more games with the characters which is why I think it altered on the story and why like most
[00:42:01] of us have had our problems the way they are and I think at all the the the the pivotal point
[00:42:08] is going to be part three is part three going to come out and say this is the message we wanted
[00:42:14] to tell you this whole time and it will it will make the whole project
[00:42:21] cool yeah or is it going to be like lightning returns where it came out and then everybody was like
[00:42:29] that's what you were leading to you know what I mean like there there is a there's a there's a
[00:42:38] there yeah there's going to be a point yeah exactly that's a good example and to the other
[00:42:45] thing too about the timelines deal the way through it's there jump at the bit with this
[00:42:51] yeah right there with you okay I think you mentioned about advent children's the last thing
[00:42:55] I'll get to the advent children thing is super easy fix because all they have to do in part three
[00:43:03] to lead it back into there is advent children is just correct all of the timelines that wants
[00:43:09] into a key point and then it's no harm no fell it all comes back together you lead into advent
[00:43:16] children and it's basically you get your cake and you eat it too I think if you do something like
[00:43:21] that it's it's going to that's lazy like if you all said hey we're just going to do a key point
[00:43:25] and we're going to merge it all and let's go in the advent I think that's that's lazy with this kind
[00:43:30] of build up it is but it's the fix it's it's the one fix I can see them doing where it it leads
[00:43:35] back into advent children in a cohesive way that doesn't leave you at the end of part three going
[00:43:41] what the fuck you know what I mean after the end of two and him basically having
[00:43:48] air spirit with him the whole way I from me I think it's going to be in that he's going to
[00:43:58] it's going to have to end up putting him back almost I want to feel like part of this whole
[00:44:04] ending to two is him being stuck in the lifestream and they're going to pull him out
[00:44:13] hey I just wanted to I just wanted to throw my opinion on the on the uh air thing when she
[00:44:18] does reappear my interpretation I felt that she came she came back so I do agree that there was
[00:44:26] like you know the the death scene was it was you know a second handed but um when you take
[00:44:35] control over in in that part I like I interpreted that she was alive and she came back so
[00:44:41] she came back from another timeline or something but that was my interpretation I think she's dead
[00:44:47] because here's the thing is right cloud's talking to her and nobody seen her. What's the bad
[00:44:54] she's not reacting to her because look at where Seth Roth comes from though he's essentially
[00:45:01] descended. That's true he's he's in the other but he's also but also in reality he's in the
[00:45:06] Northern Crater in the lifestream so. Correct so he has a connection to her regardless of if
[00:45:11] she's alive or that is true. That is true. Yes. So I think because nobody's nobody's seen her
[00:45:17] she's out in full blown conversations chilling there with with cloud. Yeah she's she's
[00:45:24] because think about their success bro. Go back to that's right she got the extra action.
[00:45:30] If this is leading in the I have been children right think about advent children
[00:45:34] when cloud is sitting there and he's pretty much dying from from everything right and she pretty
[00:45:42] well he or she she puts her hand on his essentially comes back and says essentially let's go.
[00:45:48] Well then I still feel that kind of works then because even if it is in his head throughout the game
[00:45:53] I mean you question whether or not he was saying or going through something. But in the fight
[00:46:01] operating fighting Sephiroth it would make sense that those rats within those realms she can appear.
[00:46:08] I still feel that it takes away from the death but I do understand that now. The wild card
[00:46:14] the wild card of all this is the fact that the white material was tangible in multiple.
[00:46:21] Whatever you want to call them timelines realities whatever there was a there was a white
[00:46:26] material in an hour based we'll just call it base timeline or base reality or realm or whatever.
[00:46:33] And then it went rogue I guess you'd call it and empty it empty it's it's it's it's content right.
[00:46:40] So then cloud had to bring the one from this other reality realm life stream era
[00:46:47] to our base one just so that the white material could even be used. So I think that's also a like
[00:46:53] what's tangible what's alive what's dead what's real what's in cloud's head like was the
[00:47:00] white material ever empty but then you're like okay yes it was because red and aireth both were talking
[00:47:06] with no one else around and it was empty. So you know that happened and you know that there's a
[00:47:11] material that Zach saw with aireth in his time and then you know there's one the aireth gave to cloud
[00:47:18] but you don't know which aireth gave that to cloud because there's all these different stamps that signify
[00:47:22] the different realms and timelines and everything else so it's like which white material did we get
[00:47:27] and if this white material fails can we just go get another one and if that fails can we just get
[00:47:33] aireth from timeline 247 in the marital universe. I forgot about that. Yeah you know what I mean it's
[00:47:39] that I think is the big what if or the big like what does this mean if this item is tangible
[00:47:48] in one timeline or realm or reality that it can be brought to the base one and have an effect on
[00:47:54] that world. Drew you were about to say something. Yeah yeah you paused you paused for a say you're
[00:48:02] about say something Drew you're like he's about to end my whole career. I mean there were
[00:48:07] a lot of things have been set. Yeah not only are all very interesting things that have been said.
[00:48:15] I don't know any of that's what's going on. I think it's I look I think theorizing is a lot of fun
[00:48:20] and I don't want to like throw a what towel on anyone's fun that's I like listening to all that
[00:48:28] I think it's it's great it's interesting and I do think that VK's right to an extent that's
[00:48:34] part of what's going on here is that they want us having conversations like this. They want
[00:48:39] people talking about a book is going on. I actually do believe that thematically that feeling
[00:48:48] what the book is going on is a key element of final fantasy it's not just something they're doing
[00:48:54] for marketing and to throw them up hype. It is a key element of every final fantasy game at least
[00:49:01] going back to the fourth game which was a medieval fantasy until they found a whale ship that sent you
[00:49:06] to the moon. Every game has had what my brother and I call going to the moon moment where stuff just
[00:49:13] goes completely off the rails several game Final Fantasy 8 but it's basically that moment over and
[00:49:19] over and over and over and over yes it literally has it going. It's groundhog day. But I think
[00:49:28] that what's going on in this remake project is actually far simpler than that. I do not believe
[00:49:34] it there are multiple timelines though. I do think they want us theorizing about that. I don't
[00:49:39] think the vast majority of it can be explained through understandings of how the life stream works
[00:49:47] pretty basic understanding of how mysticism tends to work in Final Fantasy like and again
[00:49:54] it's oftentimes at the simplest explanation. I think a lot of people saw this from remake to
[00:49:59] re-birth there were a lot of wild fantasies and what ended up happening was actually far simpler
[00:50:07] and I think we're seeing that again where people are going off on all of these things so
[00:50:12] I don't again a lot of things were said I don't want to specific I don't want to phrase it as a
[00:50:18] disagreement so I will just tell you what I think is happening how about that? Yeah do it do it
[00:50:24] I believe the era of this dead quite clearly I believe that she dies in that moment. I believe
[00:50:33] that cloud that we are seeing clouds big break moment there's been a lot of his going crazy if we're
[00:50:40] going to call it that but this is sort of the big breaking moment where seeing his fractured relationship
[00:50:45] with reality really come into focus and that's why we do see era three appear to hammer that home
[00:50:53] about clouds fractured reality it's also the beginning of him starting to see the ghost of
[00:51:00] era something that will happen over and over again it happens multiple times an advent children
[00:51:05] he sees her in a flower feel at one point they have a quick conversation so he's able to see
[00:51:11] into the life stream and see ghosts like era thensack that happens throughout
[00:51:17] advent children I think cloud is inside of the life stream for all of these shenanigans that
[00:51:24] are largely being interpreted as multiple timelines and that's why we're seeing if you want to call it
[00:51:31] different versions everything several have different relationships with the life stream and being
[00:51:36] inside of the love stream right and they can interact with it differently than most people cloud isn't
[00:51:41] used to it Zach all of what we're seeing is him going through it because he died too you did not
[00:51:49] survive that moment he's living through what I believe is sort of like a life flashes before
[00:51:57] you die your life flashes before you're as before you die Zach is in the life stream
[00:52:02] experiencing all this weird stuff an alternate version of bakes running around with these alternate
[00:52:09] because they are in these they keep calling them like i think self-reth called in pocket
[00:52:12] universes which is giving people creases idea that their multiple timelines I just think that
[00:52:18] there the life stream carries everyone's memories everyone's memories are a universe we are seeing
[00:52:24] the memories of what might have happened Zach's potential memories of a life he might have lived
[00:52:32] had he survived the events at the end of crisis core but he never does that's how cloud ends up
[00:52:39] with the buster sword cloud all this experience that so you're not taking away Zach's death
[00:52:45] or the end of crisis core because cloud experience that it absolutely happened that's how we
[00:52:51] gets the buster sword but Zach is experiencing this life stream banana on where eventually he's going
[00:53:01] and we kind of see them bomb around with each other in the life stream yeah so I believe that
[00:53:08] both of them are dead and in the life stream and seeing from the other side there are two sides
[00:53:14] of almost every final fantasy world the real world in the spiritual world i'm going to say 10
[00:53:18] right that far clean right that always always exists the life stream is the spiritual world in this world
[00:53:23] Zach and errather end there which is also connected to where Sephiroth actually is and they are
[00:53:29] seeing the manifestations of his plan from inside the life stream most of us are seeing it from
[00:53:34] the world of Gaia where most of the people live cloud is partly going nuts because he's starting to
[00:53:41] see both because Sephiroth has been screwed with his mind and also because Erith has been trying
[00:53:47] to end with Erith and Zach are trying to influence him from inside the life stream and so I think
[00:53:53] in the final part we are going to have actually like soldiers said i think it's going to happen again
[00:53:59] I think we're going to get more final battle stuff with all of the life stream people present
[00:54:04] errather Zach will be there as a part of the fight and it might feel like they're themselves but
[00:54:09] they'll be their dead selves just fighting from inside the life stream our live people will be
[00:54:16] doing their thing and so on i think most of the rest of the story is going to play out
[00:54:21] exactly as it has i think to most people's biggest concerns and i totally understand
[00:54:28] wanting it in this one but i do think they're going to retell the death of errather again in
[00:54:36] part three and i would suspect the point they do it is not at the beginning but when cloud when
[00:54:43] Tifa has to go into clouds memories to piece them together to learn who he actually is
[00:54:50] one of the memories they're piecing together memories from his childhood and they piece together
[00:54:56] from them at uh the water tower because cloud is was misremembering them before
[00:55:02] and she could say now there's one other thing cloud that you completely misremembered
[00:55:10] and then we get the scene where errather dies the way we all know she does soar right through she falls
[00:55:17] cloud walks her into the water they've rendered cloud walking her into the water in these graphics
[00:55:23] errather sigh in remake he walks her into the water and we're going to see it but not until
[00:55:31] part three and again i suspect it will be when they're piecing his memories back together saying cloud
[00:55:36] this thing happened and throughout your life when tragedy has happened to you your memory fractures
[00:55:43] this one time you started to believe that you were this guy named Zach well it's other time
[00:55:47] your friend errather died right in front of you and you weren't able to accept it and you've
[00:55:54] gone nuts and they're going to have to put all of his memories together so it's not going to be
[00:55:59] all the timelines coming back together it's going to be the memories of cloud being recent back
[00:56:05] into what actually happens the one true timeline is going to be the one true thus restoring the
[00:56:12] event children timeline that's it i have two questions first of all lawyer oh yeah i have
[00:56:21] those usually well said and like like you said very square it is like yeah very interesting
[00:56:28] do you like yeah i have two questions in there and they're not combat of questions at all they're
[00:56:34] they're actually clarifying questions and they will finish this out for the night because guys i just
[00:56:38] think of the time we are doing so do you do you feel that the reason why Zach and errather
[00:56:48] and bigs and these people that errather specifically tied to or the ones that are popping up in
[00:56:54] these places is because we're having a these people are are connected to the life stream thicker
[00:57:01] because of her but also they have these unresolved issues that when they died like errather died
[00:57:10] she still was trying to fight Sephiroth when Zach died he was still trying to become a hero
[00:57:15] live his life protect his friends his family stuff like that do you think that he is
[00:57:21] that the reason why those characters are specifically the ones that are important to this part
[00:57:27] are because of of that like it's it's kind of like a good question like like when you
[00:57:32] like you know how they talk about how like supernatural right the show where right or like demon
[00:57:37] slayer how like when when the day i mean it's weird example but yeah no but i don't you mean yeah
[00:57:43] yeah undersold issues that they are so strongly tied to someone that's an ancient they are able to
[00:57:49] tangibly affect the world around them even though they're long gone or maybe gone in the future
[00:57:56] i think that's highly possible i would also bet though that the people of cosmocanian would
[00:58:02] probably tell you that anyone who's spiritual enough and praise hard enough can reach out to their
[00:58:08] loved ones and they'll be able to physically manifest in the brilliant people we've
[00:58:12] clearly added this okay i mean there is something to that you know yeah i i think
[00:58:19] that's definitely why we are seeing their stories but yeah i think there's a i mean there's a strong
[00:58:24] possibility it's because they're connected in that way right and then the other thing was
[00:58:29] with the with the white material that i brought up do you feel that there's a tangible
[00:58:35] explanation for why they're able to bring other things from like because for example we saw the
[00:58:42] white material was completely empty right and then aireth was able to bring an alternate version
[00:58:48] too cloud that he then gave to her in return yeah do you what how do you explain
[00:58:57] that something that is supposed to be a life stream memory or is maybe not technically
[00:59:04] real i guess i don't know for lack of a better term real how is that able to tangibly affect a
[00:59:11] world that does exist right no that so i'll tell you this i don't have a great answer for that
[00:59:19] and there's one other thing that i don't have a great answer for but i do think the two of them
[00:59:22] are tied together and you brought it up earlier and it's the white whispers that's a weird
[00:59:28] wrench in my theory but i will tell you this i think that the i'm pretty sure that it has
[00:59:36] something to do with the fact in the original game erith says the first time she mentions that
[00:59:40] material and this is repeated and remake as well that it doesn't do anything right and she's very
[00:59:45] confident that it doesn't do anything cloud even that's just like man's planning moments like you
[00:59:48] just don't use it right and she looks shut up and but she doesn't ever really figure out how to
[00:59:55] use it and it isn't till after her death and later on i get spoilers for five times seven potentially
[00:59:59] part three right it's actually boogin hogin who discovers that the material only works after it's
[01:00:05] in the life stream now in the original game it doesn't change color or do anything like that but
[01:00:10] one of the things that this project has been really cool about in my mind is like explaining
[01:00:14] some things that were plot holes in the original like why didn't tiffa ever stay anything to
[01:00:18] anybody well and re birth she does i mean get a whole side plot about her trying to figure out the
[01:00:23] best way to tell cloud that what he's saying happened didn't happen it's great right i think we're
[01:00:28] getting a similar thing here why did erith who knew her mother and who is an ancient and who is
[01:00:34] the best magic user in the game why did she not know how to use the key pieces of material
[01:00:38] maybe it's not that she didn't know how to use it maybe it's that it literally
[01:00:42] cannot be used it doesn't have whatever properties it needs to to summon holy until it's been
[01:00:47] in the life stream now how or why it can go into the life stream and come back out and impact our
[01:00:52] world that's something they're going to have to explain in part three but i think that that's probably
[01:00:58] what's going on there is there's something about that material that it has to be but passed
[01:01:04] between realms but for it can work and the last thing i want to say is i do think that the
[01:01:08] white whispers and the black whispers are tied to the white material and the black material
[01:01:14] meteor and holy the two final things that clash at the end of final fantasy seven i think
[01:01:19] that's all going to be a big part of of part three i think the white and black coloration
[01:01:24] is definitely thematically important regardless of if it's the white material and black material
[01:01:29] or the the whispers themselves like i think there's always been this you know i mean technically
[01:01:36] in in japan white is a different means something different than it does here but when you think of
[01:01:43] air if you always think of light and and beauty and and things like that and that's what kind of
[01:01:49] white represents and when in a lot of storytelling you know black wizards you know black
[01:01:56] material a sefer off has a black color scheme like black has always been a color of of
[01:02:02] darkness and evil and evil and the opposition to the light so i agree with you i think
[01:02:09] thematically it is important that those color schemes are being dude brought in you know
[01:02:16] now i need to go watch legend based a lot for that because you just have their painted whole
[01:02:21] picture options and like you see is tim curry from in the great to get a lord darkness yeah
[01:02:29] yeah he's talking about anti light so we we could always just keep talking and talking with these guys
[01:02:36] however it's already been talking now and we haven't even got to say okay i know
[01:02:44] you i'm sorry Jason we will give you your own segment next week you can just
[01:02:52] stop goodness now but you know here right now and it's like your shirt and all man
[01:02:56] and shirt and it's all right yeah okay easy great game except for again the last bit i get it
[01:03:07] I understand it as to watch in the first game watch playing throughout the second game you know we do
[01:03:12] need to have the big boss moment you do need that portal cloes closer closure of the game so
[01:03:20] i mean we have this one ready to unremake we have this two already done rebirth now we have this
[01:03:26] three and this three is always a little fuzzy for me because i always just remember it as trying
[01:03:31] to beat emerald and Rubyweb in the entire time anyways did did you also beat that for jerry
[01:03:38] no it's i some be i i mean sorry jerry i had to i had to but uh and so i mean like we like
[01:03:46] this guy he was affected like even both me and my wife as well as i was playing like i was expecting
[01:03:51] air to be just boom killed off we knew the moment was coming and we're like all i like here
[01:03:56] a concert comes and we're like all right i unacquipped all of our material because of like all
[01:04:01] like it's game time like like you don't need that no more many people did that you don't need
[01:04:07] that shit no i did that with k-sick and i was like all right but i get it and this is the
[01:04:13] way like you guys talking white whisper is black whisper's um error is it's stuff like that
[01:04:18] honestly i think it's not the fact of the white holy black meteor i feel it's more of this whole
[01:04:26] clash of us as old school final fantasy seven players versus the new school final fantasy players like
[01:04:33] you have this new black route that the whispers are trying to guide you in and then now you have
[01:04:39] the white whispers which are us the old school members like this is how it's supposed to happen
[01:04:44] i mean it could be the either way but that's like it's like something analogy it's something
[01:04:52] it's like all of us are trying to figure out like oh like how are they going to do this now how are
[01:04:56] they going to and then you'll see white whispers all you'll see black whispers in this second part
[01:05:01] and it hasn't happened in the first part and we're like why didn't they show up in the first part
[01:05:05] well because for 95% of the game and remake it was for the most part as it was supposed to be for one
[01:05:14] for the most part one for most part you know granted you get that 80-20 for discrepancy
[01:05:22] here again it started becoming this branching off but again we don't know like it's again 80-20
[01:05:32] and that 20% is when the whispers we don't see it till chapter nine until we get to the
[01:05:44] that were like they're like all these are the new weapons and i'm like oh please i want to fight
[01:05:48] these things so bad till we take them to the moon yeah i know right so it's as so much of
[01:05:55] that is happening and then again going all over to the end where we see air. die air does die
[01:06:00] i'm with you Drew like it's impossible if she's alive i will stop playing for a good
[01:06:06] tall week because i will be like i cannot believe this i've like no she she did she gone
[01:06:12] i i'd like that send off in the credits because it's just her sending everyone off again
[01:06:20] it is um a lot of clouds craziness that's going into it which makes it even better because yes
[01:06:27] cloud is starting to go crazy everybody else is still you know nobody takes a nose tour at all
[01:06:33] like she's just in the back of the wall the shot she said oh yeah i i to clarify i believe
[01:06:39] she's dead yeah she i just my question is is there another version of her not like in a
[01:06:46] no way like in a one division type deal where yeah there's going to be all these different versions
[01:06:50] of aireth like you know what i mean yeah not that they're going to bring out a thousand ever just be
[01:06:55] and it'll just be separate off i will log yeah because i mean like we and now i like i said now
[01:07:01] I understand why we keep fighting separate at the end of these games because yes it's that big bad
[01:07:06] but you're also pushing the narrative of like this is the guy that's like really
[01:07:11] screwing with the entire people that were using like our entire party you know like it's hidden
[01:07:19] cloud hard it's hitting like even all the avalanche members because there's we went from
[01:07:24] being avalanche against Shinra now or like okay now we're focusing on just killing separate
[01:07:31] because it's helping Shinra but it's pushing our agenda like it gets confusing for them everybody is
[01:07:38] now towards um separate because i mean we fight roofest multiple times we fight separate multiple
[01:07:45] times we were getting to all these fights that we didn't have before and now we're pushing this
[01:07:53] like okay like everybody's against separate you know and i don't know what's going on with the
[01:07:57] tie because you know the what's his name general uh click i forget his name up top my head
[01:08:07] but uh wait i don't want to say i want to call Mike like it sounds like Mike it's something it's
[01:08:14] something close general Mike you know but you know it's it's more hate for first Michael
[01:08:19] yeah it's one of those is like past and you're like like what's going on there
[01:08:25] and you know we're going to have a lot of a lot of Bobbin and we've been and again i feel like
[01:08:33] the white waspers and the black waspers are going to come out a lot more in the third one
[01:08:37] just because we're going to start seeing how us as original final patch some players see it
[01:08:45] imagine it directed versus the new way where like we have different like this is the different
[01:08:52] storyline that we wanted to take you know because the white and the black waspers keep fighting each other
[01:08:59] when it's all it towards the same zone this will be the it'll be a shingling we get there yeah
[01:09:06] it'll be a good yeah we've already run over oh and some of us have parental duties to go
[01:09:13] taking uh i mean anyways but they're old enough to make their own decisions i mean like you got dinner and
[01:09:21] anyways so for those at crash game i'd say yeah thank you for crashing with us feel like a
[01:09:26] child drops follow head on over crashing game i'd calm there are profiles built for vk drew
[01:09:34] and soldier on there seeing go check out the pass-ups i was including where soldier had to
[01:09:39] gravel the madam and make up to make up to her i'm never going to live that down am i know you are
[01:09:47] with that guys with everything that is going on the world we've had here in the states we've had
[01:09:52] school shootings we've had attempted assassinations and everything please guys just be excellent to each other
[01:09:59] that's right everybody let's send everybody out with the same message boys thank you so much for joining
[01:10:05] once again it was it was like the family barbecue once again you guys are always invited please come back
[01:10:12] um and uh uh once again everyone let's just try to do uh and be better let's just try and
[01:10:21] lend a helping hand uh try and be a little bit kinder and practice a little bit more patience
[01:10:26] and just try and spread a little bit more good out there and be safe uh j-rock take it take it
[01:10:36] like i think this is part one i think we need part two next week guys jesus christ i like that i like that
[01:10:42] gee i i mean i'm i'm gonna invite as well because my god like there's so much that
[01:10:48] the week and i'm talking about if the other down for we can just call it for you i'm talking about
[01:10:51] gameplay crashing game night rebirth yeah i'll talk to the guys we'll see so Jason but just
[01:11:02] why rush we brought why rush we all like it trying to get past the guys thank you guys
[01:11:06] for coming out again you know because you sir can pull a syndrome and you can model what he's
[01:11:12] gonna he's gonna be in the dog house i've got i don't go to model but anyways guys no it's it's
[01:11:19] great we do need to talk more about this because it's just amazing it is such a good game such
[01:11:26] you know honestly and then we're for us having played the first one playing the second one
[01:11:33] it's time to blow stuff but anyways i know Matt's trying to rush me so you know
[01:11:38] my man you've been silent this whole time i wish you play fun of asy as well but it's okay
[01:11:43] but send us off like either way you're here we missed you welcome back thank you fellas
[01:11:48] appreciate you joining hopefully we have you next week but so do all listeners to our watchers
[01:11:54] if anything that's all for the map you're gonna add everybody